Men in Nursing
Many times people ask me what it’s like to be a man in nursing. Based on observation and experience, I actually feel fairly negative about the way men are treated by female nurses. So, I am writing this with the understanding that many (most?) people will disagree with how I feel. Hopefully I can start some debate and help open people’s eyes to what may be going on.
1.) Novelty
Men in nursing are often seen as a novelty in the profession of nursing. We are a minority, but rarely seen as equals. We are looked upon as an exotic animal at the zoo that everyone comes to see.
This is felt innocently enough in the very first days of nursing school when the professor inevitably looks out at the crowd and cries, “Oh good! There’s at least five men in the crowd! I’m so excited!”
Sure, it’s not meant negatively at all, and in fact it’s meant as a very positive comment. However, it instantly solidified my status as a very special exception to the norm. Everyone in the class stretched and turned their necks to do their own count of all the men in the class.
“oooooh…look at all the men, there MUST be at least ten of them! I wonder if they’re gay?”
This carried forward over the years. If I missed a class, the professor always knew, after all, as she said, “you stick out like a sore thumb, I always notice when you’re not here!”
Fast forward past school and onto the unit. Nothing has really changed. There’s always little “cutesy” comments about me being a male nurse. People are well meaning, and think it’s great that I’m a male nurse–that’s not the issue. I just wish that occasionally I could blend into the crowd and be a “Nurse” rather than a “Male Nurse.” Or “Murse” as we are frequently called now. *cringe*
And don’t forget, we even have our own novelty toy! The male nurse action figure! I have to admit, I have two of them–people keep buying them for me as presents.
2.) We are your children
For a long time I thought that it was me alone who experienced this phenomenon, but I’ve come to see it happen to other male nurses along the way. In fact, I would love to do some sort of research to confirm it.
The fact is, many of the nurses both young and old treat me as though I’m a four-year-old. I don’t know if it’s social or genetic but often it feels like the female nurses see me (and men in general) as someone that needs to be cared for. It is as though I am another one of their patient.
I am not treated as an adult in the crowd of female nurses, but instead as the child. I don’t get to sit at the big people table on breaks (I’m not invited because the girls want to have their gossip time), I’m not updated on everyone’s social lives (he wouldn’t understand such adult and/or female topics), I need to be helped and guided with every little task as though it’s my first day of nursing school (such a “child” must need help with every little task, right?).
And there’s always that change in voice, “Oh Sean! My little poopsy woopsy, howsy wowsy did that drain dressing go? Does my little smoochy woochy need me to watch him doosy woosy that catheter insertion?”
“uh…no? Why would I?”
OK, that was a bit of an exaggeration.
3.) Not to be trusted!
I feel that men are treated as though they are never to be trusted. As I mentioned with the last point, I looked inward before looking externally–I wondered if it was only me. However, I’ve noticed this as a trend with all the male nurses on my unit.
Nothing I ever do or say is ever to be trusted. EVER. Here’s an example: A couple nights ago, I was caring for a very sick man. My charge nurse took it upon herself to “babysit” me all night with this patient.
“What was his blood pressure?” she interrogated me with?
“70/40″ I replied.
“Did you take that manually?”
“yes”
“Are you sure?”
“Yes…the orders state that they want manual BPs. I’m doing manual BPs.”
“What’s his urine output?” She has a frowny face now. I’m sure I have morphed into her teenage son who has just arrived home late. She’s trying to determine if what I’m saying is truth or lies.
“15cc over the last hour”
“hmmm….that’s low. Are you sure?”
“Yes, I just checked!”
“You better look again before I page the doctor. And take his blood pressure. Make sure it’s manual this time! I can’t believe I have to page the doctor and you don’t have all the information for me.” Now she’s looking disgusted.
I’m of course very upset at this point but decide to be the bigger person. I go and do another blood pressure and check her urine output. On top of this all, she didn’t even ask if I was worried about the patient, or what my assessment of the situation was.
The fact is, the patient’s BP had been about 70/40 with a urine output of about 15cc/h for about two days now. His condition hadn’t changed; I had no desire to page the doctor about this at 2:00am.
When the doctor did call back, he politely said, “thanks for the update, but there’s nothing more I can do as I explained earlier, just continue with current orders.” So, of course, now the doctor’s wondering why I’m such an idiot.
The issue is that this nurse NEVER would have had this conversation with any of the other female nurses. She wouldn’t have asked if it was a manual BP or questioned her urine output numbers.
How about this example: My patient filled her attends with liquid BM. I asked another nurse to come help me out.
As is common with large liquid BMs, it covered her vagina and Foley. I grabbed the cleaning material and start scooping away poop. The other nurse pushes me away and states, “Seansy Weansy! You have to wipe front to back!”
Thanks for the news flash lady; it doesn’t take a nursing degree for even a man to know that (but a child?). Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the point of wiping front to back to keep feces away from the vagina? If the vagina is covered in feces, does it really matter how you get it off? Keep in mind that I WAS cleaning properly (i.e. middle to outside, front to back), but took a few extra wipes to get into the nooks and crannies.
Would she have questioned a female nurse? No, but you can’t trust a male nurse’s level of knowledge, of course.
4.) Male Nurses are Criminals
This is a VERY controversial topic. I have seen it bring nursing forums to the brink of nuclear war. The fact is, patients and other nurses treat men in nursing as though we are criminals–suspicious at best.
Elderly patients often see male nurses as sexual predators. After all, if he wasn’t, he would have become a doctor, right? I have been asked by patients, both nicely and in fits of screaming (yes, seriously, one patient had a temper-tantrum when I walked in the room, before I had even said a word) that I will in no circumstance be allowed to be their nurse.
Female patients can be uncomfortable with male nurses. But why? It’s because we’re suspicious, we’re “creepy,” we’re obviously in this profession so that we can get to see women naked! Free boob views!
When asked why they have no problem with their male doctor seeing their body, the typical reply is, “They’re a doctor, it’s just different!” Yes, nurses are some of the most trusted people in the world–unless you’re male.
Male nurses (and doctors) are often required to have a chaperone when performing “female” interventions. The message this sends is that all men are capable of being criminals, so better safe than sorry.
I will not apologize for my belief that it should be illegal to require a chaperone when men are performing procedures. It is blatant sexism! Until women require chaperones for the same procedures, I will not budge. I will not tolerate indirectly being called a criminal needing to be “babysat” (yes, we’re back to the child thing again).
Next time a female nurse has to put a Foley in a 90 year old male patient, I better be there! What if she decides to start fondling him?
The only sexism I tolerate is religious. Islamic women often refuse to have a male nurse help with “female” care. They can’t help what religion/culture they are; it’s how they were raised. I had a patient the other day: every time she had to go to the bathroom I had to call a nursing aid to help her out. Her husband, son, and I all stood in the hallway with two doors between the patient and us, waiting. No man is allowed to see her like that.
And I used my words carefully. I don’t like this form of sexism–I tolerate it.
5.) Social Outcasts
The men on my unit are never invited to the unit’s social events. The main reason for this is that their seem to only be the following occasions for social events: Bridal showers, weddings, baby showers, and my favorite: “girl’s night out.”
When the nurses on my unit want to party, they want to do it with the other girls. Every day I’m inundated with facebook pictures of all the girls socializing. I come into work to hear all about the fun night they had celebrating.
Have you ever been that one person that is never invited to anything? That always feels left out of the conversation because you weren’t there when everyone else was? Have you ever been that person that wants to be included, but never is?
If you’ve ever been that person, I don’t think I need to say more…
7.) Male Nurses are Lazy
This one seems to have hit other men I work with even more than me. However, I’m pretty sure I’m on the receiving end of this stereotype as well. I truly believe that male nurses are often seen as being lazy.
I think this stems from the fact that the men I see entering nursing tend to be “type B” personalities, while women that enter the nursing profession tend to be “type A” personalities.
Often, I feel that coworkers resent this laid back persona that men often bring to the nursing unit (often they claim to love it). I have seen looks of disgust when a male nurse is seen socializing, making a joke, or finding ways to have fun at work (yes, it IS allowed).
Men (in my experience) are better able to let go of the little things–to avoid sweating the small stuff. As a result, I have seen male nurse’s performances critiqued and nit-picked when they were certainly not deserving. On the flip-side, females are just assumed to have done a perfect job–much less questioning or their abilities.
Fortunately, as I said, I’ve rarely experienced this myself (but of course, it occurs behind our backs, so I wouldn’t know).
8.) Never good enough
This goes along with the point that men are never to be trusted. But I simply wanted to focus it to the following point: when women have spoken about working in male dominated professions, they discuss having to be twice as good as men just to get half the respect.
As male nurses, I feel we need to work twice as hard and have twice as much knowledge in order to receive half as much respect from our female coworkers as the other female nurses do.
******
On a final note: I know this is a very personalized set of experiences and I’m generalizing to the entire nursing profession. I’m aware of this and the inherent flaws of doing so. I could just as easily do a post about what is great about being a male nurse; however, I wanted to share what I felt were the negative aspects.
I will also say that this rant follows a particularly tough night where every issue above was felt. I have decided to make personal changes in how I communicate, project myself, and react. This post was not made in a vacuum, but is most certainly in response to personal experience. But there is nothing I have stated above that I haven’t seen happen to other men in nursing.
Please feel free to completely disagree and argue my points. However, I do ask that you be respectful.
November 6th, 2007 at 12:12
Ouch, sounds like a hostile work environment if I ever heard one. It’s a shame too. It sounds like you know your stuff and should be trusted. We’re professionals first, men second.
When patients ask why I didn’t become a doctor, I tell them straight out, “I never wanted to. I’m happy being a nurse.” As for the whole chaperone thing, if they are with it I give them the opportunity to request a female to be present, it’s more of a comfort/dignity thing than a sexism thing. Half the time when I’m doing female care on patients not with it, there’s more than one of us anyways so it is not an issue. I don’t feel it’s about male/female it’s more about dignity. That’s just me though.
Keep your head up though, things change. By being a consummate professional we keep our heads above the crap (literal and metaphorical) that permeates our workplace,thus making us look better. It’s hard, but taking the high road is the way to do it.
November 6th, 2007 at 12:43
[...] Read: Men in Nursing [...]
November 6th, 2007 at 14:59
About the “men are criminals” bit– I think the hesitation of some women to be cared for by males stems not from the belief that male nurses are lustful and have poor impulse control, but from the inherent power imbalance between the genders that exists in our culture. Like it or not, the patriarchy still exists and men are still in a more powerful social role than women. And people in power sometimes abuse it. One (horribly common!) way that people exert power over each other is through inappropriate touching. Maybe when gender equality really exists, female patients won’t mind being cared for by male nurses.
Also keep in mind that *a lot* of women have a history of some form of sexual violence perpetrated against them.
It’s not personal, it’s political
November 6th, 2007 at 18:11
Sean:
I have to say this as a female who’s worked in a reverse environment (more male than female)…I wish you worked with me!
Working in a predominately female environment tends to get b*)chy. I detest it. I much prefered working in an environment that’s 50/50 male/female or 60/70/80% male/female IF you work with people who are conscientious and kind. This makes a huge difference. I’ve worked with nice male nurses and not-so-nice male nurses, just like I have with female nurses. It’s great to work on a team where people really WANT to be a team, not a “bunch of girls or guys”. Been there, done that and it stinks!
Diversity is also achieved with gender, too. We need to get along with people no matter what their gender, and most of all, we should learn to be respectful to other nurses.
We’re all on the same team after all! It’s called the healthcare team for a reason!
November 7th, 2007 at 08:01
As a female, I prefer to have a woman in the room when a man is doing a “female” procedure (any man – doctor or nurse) IF I don’t already know the man in question. I would assume the same would be felt the other way around. I don’t understand why it’s not made an option for everyone to have someone of the same gender present when a healthcare provider of the opposite gender is doing a “female” or “male” procedure. People are just raised with such different comfort levels (and you never know if there’s a history of abuse, etc.) that I think it makes sense to have that be one of the services provided to keep patients feeling safe and cared-for in hospitals. I realize that it’s a bigger pain if the elect to have someone else present, but as I know you already know, sometimes that little thing to make the patient more comfortable makes all the difference in their experience.
November 7th, 2007 at 08:55
[...] Nurse Sean (dot) com has an interesting take on what it’s like to be a male nurse. [...]
November 7th, 2007 at 18:12
Hi! I’d like to make comment! Male nurses are a novelty but I have to disagree on not being treated as equals. A male nurse new to the wards may get this feeling but as confidence and experience grows this will diminish.
Back when I started in 1975 I was the only male out of three that were training at the hospital and I never experienced teachers snide remarks. Far from it. Either that or I did not recognise them. Thick as a brick somethings. Sure I felt like a pimple on a bum and this feeling took a while to go.
I later found out that the other students thought I may be gay, but that comes with the territory I’m afraid. Some people are just ignorant. They came to realise I wasn’t. I got called nursey and Mister Sister. I particularly liked Mister Sister.
Some people are habitually more self-conscious than others. But that could be due to their shyness more than anything. I certainly was very shy and blushing 24/7 in the wards didn’t help.
Being treated by nurses, both young and old, as though your a four-year-old may not be that at all. I could just be that they are being over protective.
I do agree that some female nurses are stand offish towards male nurses, but I think that’s a defensive mechanism where they find male nurses a possible threat to their personal space. They may even think male nurses, being males, only want one thing. But with time as they get to know you this should go. If not, who gives a shxt.
I did find that with the ones that were like this would always come around when any heavy lifting was required. But hey, it breaks the ice with them.
A few times I felt like I was not trusted but that was from people that didn’t know me well enough. That’s their loss.
I find that people who wish to constantly check up on me, are the ones who are usually easily flustered and poorly organised themselves. The others are just trying to make sure nothing goes wrong on their watch.
I found that a few elderly gentlemen felt threatened by male nurses. But that’s their problem not mine. Ignorant as they may be. Elderly females liked being treated by me. They said I wasn’t as rough as the female nurses.
In today’s climate of easy made false allegations it does not hurt to have an assistant, if available, when dealing with female interventions such as you describe. It puts the patient and the attending male nurse at ease. My wife and I used to swap procedures to get around this. I would attend to her male patients while she took over my female patient procedures.
My worst moments in regards to looking after females came when I had to express milk from a mother who could not speak english. One reason I didn’t like midwifery.
As for not being invited to social events it could just be that they didn’t want their partners to see you there. I had one such experience. I later found out he thought I was a competitor for his partners affections. Another reason could be that the girls nights out are usually only for females. That’s a girl thing, blokes are the same.
There are lazy male nurses and there are lazy female nurses. Can’t get around that one.
I appreciate that you are making comment based on your experiences and that you have generalized to some degree. I also appreciate your honesty and wanting to share it with others.
Regards
Peter McCartney
Sydney Australia
November 9th, 2007 at 09:59
It is really unfortunate that you are treated as you described. I really think that we need more male nurses. The guys I went to school with, and now the few male nurses on the unit where I work are great nurses. I hate working in a place where there is an overwhelming amount of estrogen in the air. I would rather work somewhere where there is a good balance between men and women.
November 10th, 2007 at 15:30
Sean, I’m really sorry that you’ve been working in such a challenging atmosphere. Ever considered moving to my locale?? I work with nurses of both genders and have not noticed any of the problems you have experienced (of course my being female might affect that) but I don’t care if you are male, female, canine or whatever as long as you are a team player and pull your share of the load!
Hang in there and look for a less toxic work environment – there has to be a better one out there.
November 15th, 2007 at 16:18
A very poignant post–and it’s true, many male nurses are fighting an uphill battle, and you have every right to vent about being treated as a “second-class” citizen. I also find it interesting that many of your complaints can easily be reversed to apply to almost any woman in almost any other workplace (and not just 20 years ago–this happens today, unfortunately):
-They’re not treated (or paid!) equally
-They may be infantilized or treated in a patronizing way
-They may not be included in work/social outings (like when male coworkers go to a strip club to celebrate a business victory or to a place like Hooters for a “business lunch”), or are made to feel uncomfortable if they are invited
-Most women have to work twice as hard to prove that they are just as good as the next guy.
Before coming to nursing I experienced all of these things at all the different jobs I have had over the years, which I found completely astounding, since I didn’t grow up in the 50s; I’m a definite Gen-X-er. As you’ve found out, they’re hurtful and contribute to an unpleasant and possibly unworkable job environment. And one last point: You were fortunate enough to be able to choose your career as a nurse, despite these downsides. Women in the general work-world can experience these things no matter what job they choose.
Thanks for a great and thought-provoking post.
November 18th, 2007 at 04:36
Hey Sean,
Keep the faith my friend: http://impactednurse.com/?p=174
November 26th, 2007 at 21:56
I have experienced EXACTLY the same things at my job. It got so I hated coming in. I now just go to school and will figure out what to do next. I have experienced every one of those situations. The worst is being considered a criminal, along with a predator. I may go to a hospital and tell them I do not want a female caring, touching or talking to me and see how they handle that. I experience the “I don’t want a male nurse” all the time. I am have gotten awards for care, outstanding recommendations and personal letters of thanks. Yet the woman nurse who reeks of cigarettes, ignores call buttons, insults patients and has drug problem, gets no condescending remarks. I hear the woman nurses talk about men like I have NEVER heard men talk about women, in front of me in the break room. If I even resemble making a mistake or have a question I am talked to like a child. Women treat male patients on my unit like crap. Most of the men would ask for me because of their awful treatment towards them. I know why men don’t stay in this profession. Women do not play like team members, they talk like it, but that’s it. They backstab, they lie, they manipulate, and they at least where I am, are untrustworthy. Frankly, I won’t socialize with them anymore.
As for men doing the same thing to woman as stated elsewhere here, that crap has been over for years, if a woman even mentions she is discriminated, the law suits start. If a dude does the same thing, he gets sent to diversity training. Most men don’t talk about this situation. I am in a BSN program now, and I will encourage all the younger men to get into care situations with few women and lots of autonomy,
Nurses DO eat their young, and they especially like BEEF.
I am working to change it, but, it is a female dominated profession, and the steely grip is firm.
There are other battles for nurses who are men to fight.
Nursedude45
December 12th, 2007 at 16:20
Hmmm, thanks for the posts. I have been tossing around becoming a nurse myself, I am a man, and have an offer to study for a nursing degree.
I also have an offer to study for a paramedical health science degree.
I have to accept one of these courses by tommorrow…
This post has pushed me more towards the paramedical health science degree.
January 1st, 2008 at 19:19
I don’t believe female nurses can be trusted with
privacy issues regarding male patients.
look at this allnurses.com whoa inappropriate
very disturbing, criminal actually
January 16th, 2008 at 02:42
I amn a Male Nursing Student. I dont really see these things happenning here in the Philippines. In fact my Clinical Instructors in Pediatrics, OR, Psyche and my best Professor are male.
January 23rd, 2008 at 01:51
Go to allnurses.com
Then do a search under Whoa..inappropriate
Then tell me that men can’t be trusted under
the care of a female nurse
January 23rd, 2008 at 09:35
I get a lot of the same treatment until its time to wrestle down the drunk assaultive patient or lift the heavy one, then, I am treated with the utmost respect and am sought out. Not sure if that is the type of attention I want. I’d rather just be shunned from the baby showers and left alone. And speaking of inapproperiate behavior men dont corner the market. Ever noticed how fast word gets around amongst the female nurses and all the giggles at the nurses station when Mr “Enormous Johnson” needs a foley.
January 23rd, 2008 at 09:44
It’s definitely perception that counts! Men are the pigs, woman are the angels….not balanced at all.
Hopefully this perception will change sooner than later.
January 23rd, 2008 at 09:45
BTW….I checked out that thread on allnurses.com
What those nurses did is exactly what female patients are afraid men will do. It just goes to show that females aren’t perfect. But, nobody ever thought they were…did we?
March 10th, 2008 at 23:37
I feel yah buddy, 100%. I love being 22 and 90% percent of the people I work with could be my mom (and i mean that literally cause they all have kids my age or older). So I too am seen as a child rather than a coworker.
I also loved when I got hired I heard “Wow three male nurses! Thats the most we’ve had working on this floor at one time”. I mean I am actually just realizing this as I am typing it but sometimes I am the only guy there for the entire day so it really does mean i’m the odd murse out.
March 28th, 2008 at 18:03
It is me Mohammad salim khan the only male nurse from my area.
Every one in the area is asking me that why I choose the profession and I have a lot problems from the public but I am proud to be a male nurse.
thanks
salim
swat
Pakistan.
April 6th, 2008 at 16:53
I’m so sorry that your experience has been like that.
I must work in a rare environment. In my ICU, somewhere around 30% of nurses are men. They have men-only Poker Club first Monday of the month, they have frequent golf dates to which select women (wives, girlfriends, the boss) are invited. All of our baby showers are coed keggers.
Nursing is female-dominated, but you do not move up the pecking order on our unit without the goodwill of Poker Club. Lucky for me, they like me.
Only once have I taken a patient from a male colleague because she wasn’t comfortable with a male nurse. It just. Doesn’t happen on my unit much.
Oh. And I’ve only been present on foley insertions by occasional request from the nurse. And come to think of it, that happens just as often with my female colleagues. Some chunkier ladies are a two-person job with the leg- or flashlight- holding.
None of Poker Club are bloggers, and I don’t speak for them. But many of them tell me that my unit is a rare island friendly to male nurses.
I hope you can find one for yourself. Best of luck.
/jo
April 27th, 2008 at 11:56
Wow I so totally agree with you Sean, and Nursedude45, I’m the only male RN on my ward and I’m generally treated like c**p. I dare not speak say or act in the same manner as the girls because I know I’d get reprimanded. I’ve been shouted at by Health care support workers then they start cying and I look like the devil incarnate!!! I have recieved no support since starting on the ward as a newly qualified and it’s like I’ve been fed to the wolves. It’s so grossly unfair.
May 23rd, 2008 at 14:59
Jan de Man RN
Issues with working as a male nurse in a predominantly female environment have always been a challenge for the male nurse and with many of the same facets of a woman in a reverse role.
One of the things that concerns me the most is the fact that men are leaving (I am told) the profession at four times the rate of female nurses, I think we have to ask why?
I’m sure there’s a few who use nursing as stepping stone to become a CRNA, NP, a PA or perhaps go on to med school, I’ve know a few, but this is a small number. For the most part I am concerned that it has a lot to do with male/female compatibility issues in the work place.
Many of the issues are probably related to the male vs. female in the job place come from outside the work place. Before nursing school I always had this angelic Florence Nightingale image of the female nurse. Later, while working in a large city ER, the “ladies” I worked with where known as “those dateless bitches from hell!” This may have been an exaggeration at least for the most part but still female nurses often create a toxic work environment.
For the most part I enjoy working with the female nurse; many have become great life long friends. But it’s something I’ve had to really work for it.
One of my first experiences in a large ER was I was never spoken to by the older ladies with many years of experience under their girdle unless it was absolutely necessary. Then after about two years, as if some mysterious spell had been cast, one of the older nurses just started talking to me like we where old buds. Then the others followed suit. I had passed through to the side of acceptance of this group and was now considered a part of it.
As far as a novelty, well, lets face it, we are somewhat. Men in nursing is somewhere about 5-6% of the nursing population. I’m always excited to see new nursing students rotating though the hospital with males. We need to increase hugely in numbers to make a difference in the acceptance of men in nursing.
Stereotyping is another problem I see all the time, not just in nursing but everywhere. When I started nursing people looked at me in much the say way they did a gay hair-dresser.
Fortunately, for me, I had a male nurse role model who was quite influential in steering me towards a career in nursing.
I can not disagree with you that men are often treated like children by their female counterparts. But I have to wonder if this not, at least in part, due to the times and culture we live it. Let’s face it, the girls watch “Friends” on TV, the guys often are treated like (or act like) idiots. Males in chick flicks and other media are either Antonio Bandaris or Joey. The Joeys are the punch line of the joke. It seems women seem to love programs that show men in “children” roles and for that I have no explanation. Perhaps it gives then a feeling of superiority or they’re just amused. What ever the reason it plays into the media stereotypes and bleeds over into the reality of nursing. You don’t see male nurses in medical programs like ER, or perhaps I’ve miss them, its not what we are but how we’re portrayed as male nurse is what many expect to see.
Concerning the “trust” issues, this, and a lot of other issues female nurses seem to have with men on the job, appears to come from issues they have with men off the job as well. It’s not my fault that you don’t trust me, I can’t change your boy friend, your cheating husband or your ex-whatever. Many of the problems we all have out side the work place is brought in to the work arena when it should not.
And I’ve been asked the same stupid questions challenging your actions as you mentioned. You can either comeback with a satirical reply which is like a verbal wedgie or just choose to ignore it.
But be forewarned, while you may spew out your sarcastic retorts with glee, the “she” will not forget, it will come back to bit you. You will be ambushed sooner or later.
Being the social out cast is not all bad. I don’t really want to be invited to baby showers, its ok! I don’t really want to be in your gossip circle, its ok! And I sure as… well, have your girls night out… its OK!!! I’ve got other things I need to do.
With the groups I’ve worked with, we’ve had going away parties, etc. for Dr’s, co-workers, wakes, whatever, and I’ve gone with the group. It does help you bond with co-workers. I’ve even meet with female co-workers for lunch as friends, nothing romantic implied, just friends. Again, it’s taken me a while to learn how to be a buddy to a female co-worker, but it can happen and it’s nice to have friends.
While I’ve been accused of being lazy anyone who gets to know me soon realized I’m very time conscious. Like a miser squeezing blood out of a turnip, I try to squeeze every minute I can out of an hour. If you work efficiently you can make a few extra minutes so you can kick back and not run around like a headless chicken getting little or nothing accomplished.
Working in the ER I’ve had 13 supervisors during a 21 year period. Each one had treated male nurses a little differently. It has ranged from very good to very bad. If I didn’t like a supervisor for their narrow minded out look on male nurses I knew that if I just waited a little while they would soon be gone.
Mid-management can be a scare place, which adds more stress on the leader, any issues they have with men will be amplified as their stress level is turned up.
Currently I’m working for an awesome female boss. Up to now working with her has been great. When I have a problem with a female boss or co-worker, I try to look past the bad behavior and try to understand the cause. From there if I can’t improve our relationship it might be time to make new ones.
July 24th, 2008 at 21:42
Thanks for writing this, Sean. I’m only in my second month of nursing school, and our third week of clinicals, but I think I’ve had a minor “male nurse” experience. On my first day in the hospital I was paired up with a female nurse who completely ignored me for three days. This week she was given a female nursing student who is having a much better time with her. I’m not sure if it’s just a gender thing, though, as this nurse is East Indian, so it may be a culturally-based gender bias. I was paired up with a woman today and it was a great experience. Read about it on my blog at http://machonurse.blogspot.com.
Good luck!
Rob
August 23rd, 2008 at 08:28
You are so stupid. Many women are not comfortable with male nurses b/c male nurses do rape; and many of us do not like male doctors for the same reason. If it makes a female uncomfortable, what is it to you? There are plenty of men to care for. You show disrespect for women, their autonomy, their dignity. People have a right to say who can and who cannot touch them. What you write here proves you are “creepy” and have no business being in a relationship with women at all, not a wife, not a daughter, not a patient. Bet you hate your own mother. My husband was a CNA and ET he loved working for women and in a woman dominated environment; he respected not only women’s rights to refuse his care; but other nurses efforts to save him and female patients from the indignity am embarasment of his performing intimate care on a female patient, and certainly not without a female present. I think male nurses, doctors, and students are arrogant, out of line, and guilty of sexual harassment to battery when they refuse to listen to women who say “No”. It happens every time a woman says “no males” and then put under anesthesia. As soon as she is out in come the men, and women are left with male staff while she is still under anesthesia, and are raped. It happens more often than you and those in your profession want to admit. Research indicates that repeatedly 60% of males will admit that they would rape if they knew they could get away with it; the same men find images of rape erotic; 10% of males find violence with no sexual content against women erotic. Don’t blaime the women for not being trusted; blaime you gender.
August 23rd, 2008 at 15:44
You read what I wrote and decided I was a sexist rapist who hates women and most likely takes every opportunity available to “touch” women inappropriately? Guilty until proven innocent? Way to miss the point of the post.
Nice
And then you generalized not only to male nurses (except for your husband…of course) but to the entire medical profession.
Even better…
Then you tell me that men in general are the problem?
Sigh…
get over yourself
September 16th, 2008 at 15:29
Patriarchy is the problem and your attitude shows you are full of it. You do not like respecting women, get out of nursing.
September 19th, 2008 at 00:48
McKean….you’re going to have to be more specific (i.e. examples) if you’re going to make a horrible, accusatory statement like that.
I’ll respect anyone, as long as the respect is mutual.
September 21st, 2008 at 11:16
First for McKean, I am sorry you have had such an obviously traumatic experience in your past to have made you so incredibly angry and closed. I wish you well and hope you find healing and comfort someday.
Sean, I can agree with much you have pointed out, if I haven’t experienced it I have certainly seen it.
It’s nice to know I’m not the only male-nurse out there who becomes frustrated by the sexism that poisons our porfession.
Keep your head up and keep caring.
September 28th, 2008 at 11:02
… Sean thank you for this blog.
Well, let me say I came to this blog because I was considering going into the nursing profession.
I’m male. I do happen to be gay. However being gay is not the reason why I may have chosen to look into a more feminine dominated career. However being gay I don’t feel that I need to prove my “macho-ism” to other straight men by choosing a macho type career.
Now all you straight male nurses reading this please don’t mistake what I’m saying. I’m not talking about you. What I’m saying is, I think the reason why allot of straight guys don’t go into nursing is because they may feel being a male nurse might make them appear less macho or less of a man. The men that do go into nursing either gay or straight I believe have pretty much gotten over that stigma and they don’t care about what others think of them.
Here are reasons why I’m considering nursing:
1) I can help others — Our society needs to let go of the bigotry toward men in nursing because it’s not about if you’re male or female, black, white, or whatever it’s about your skills and what’s in your heart. The nursing profession appears to be short staffed. It needs more people so that other human beings can be helped. It’s about people helping people and we need more of that in this world.
2) Nursing is pretty much recession proof. Even in a bad economy there is always a need for nurses. Maybe even more so in a down-turn economy because with stress comes more illness and more care is needed.
3) Pay is really good. I could support myself and still have money left to save for my future.
4) With a 2 year degree I can get started in nursing pretty quick and get more education as need while I’m working.
5) Advancement is wide open. Lots of possibilities when you’re a nurse. Experience and more education for example I can even become a P.A. if I wanted.
No matter where you work there will always be corporate drama that you have to deal with. It’s no different in any other career. There will always be people and the people you help who are nice and rude, respectful and disrespectful, easy going and harsh, demanding and laid back.. I can go on and on….
You have to go with your gut feeling. That has never done me wrong. It’s only when I don’t listen to my gut that I get into bad working situations.
If you’re feeling uncomfortable or having problems at the hospital you’re working at, go to a different hospital. Don’t stay if you’re unhappy with the environment.
You have to look at the turn-over rate of nurses at a particular location. You have to ask yourself why do the nurses here have short tenures? Is it because of management? caddy staff? lack of resources? Salary? What?
Eventually I believe if you keep looking you’ll find a location that fits your personality and where you feel comfortable. Every job or location will have it’s stressful times. But looking at the bigger picture — When you no longer get that constant, nagging, negative, nervous, anxious feeling in your gut about your co-workers, management or the environment then you know you’ve found the right place! If you’ve worked at a place for over a year and still feel that way then it’s time to look for something better.
October 9th, 2008 at 13:35
Wow Mckean….you have some major issues in your head to sort out.
October 10th, 2008 at 07:08
Sean, I have to disagree with you. I’ve been a nurse for 25 years and can not ever recall experiencing many of the negatives you describe.
As an instructor, I note that there are men in the class not because I think they are ‘novelties’ but because I am celebrating the continued entrance of men into the profession.
Do I have a chaparone with me if I’m providing intimate care for a female? You bet. I’m protecting myself against spurious claims about my behavior. No intelligent doctor is going to do a pelvic or breast exam without a female chaparone present, either.
Have I ever been distrusted in my skills? Not once. Generally, I’m the one everyone else turns to for validation of their findings and for guidance on what needs to be done. I’ve had too many doctors exclaim “Good, you’re here, I know it’ll be handled right” for me to feel that I’m not trusted.
Do I feel ‘left out’? No. I’m generally invited, but it is my preference not to participate, often to the displeasure of my co-workers.
Am I perceived as lazy? Well, this could be. I work smart. I manage my time and energies to accomplish more in less time. It’s called efficiency. But, at the end of my shift, I’m the one that others generally want to follow.
Whatever negatives you’re experiencing are, in my view, limited to a large degree to your own experiences and can not and should not be generalized. I think the saddest part of this is the number of commentors who said they were considering nursing until they read your post. Thanks for the disservice to our profession, and to men’s presence in it.
December 15th, 2008 at 23:35
I’m not sure it is so much to do with you being a male as you being a student and the nurse probably being insecure and wanting you to know that she is “your boss”.
Irritating for sure.
I got so irritated with the catty nature of working on a med surg floor that I quit working as a nurse altogether in that setting.
I moved onto something I enjoyed much more and have since moved on again to something I enjoy even more.
Eventually, you’ll find a place where you are comfortable and don’t have to deal with that type of nonsense.
December 16th, 2008 at 02:29
Kevin,
I wanted to respond to your comment specifically. I’d like to say that this blog was a snapshot of how I felt about being a man in nursing at the time of writing. I think it was clear that it was a reflection of my own experiences, and not an attempt to speak for everyone–perhaps I wasn’t clear enough about this point.
Over time, I’ve had many new and challenging experiences, and I’d be lying if I said my mind and views hadn’t been changed on some points. Perceptions, feelings, and experiences are subjective and are not stagnant. Confidence and self-awareness develop and happiness isn’t a reflection of how others treat you.
Others, you may have noticed, agreed with me, just as many disagreed. I was excited to see just how much conversation was created from this post. This is the real thrill in blogging.
I too was saddened by statements from folks claiming they had changed their mind about nursing as a result of this post. In fact, I nearly deleted the post as a result. However, I decided that there was no shame in sharing what I was feeling at the time. I also realized that if a person’s resolve to become a nurse was weak enough that one person’s (a completed stranger, no less) thoughts–after a particularly bad day at work–were able to change their mind, then perhaps they would have come to the same conclusion on their own.
I think most people can attest to the fact (and I agree) that when they were becoming a nurse, they were so excited and passionate to do so, that nothing would have stood in their way. Anything less would never get you through nursing school.
I’m discouraged that you feel I’m performing a disservice to the nursing profession with this post. Although I have shared negative experiences in more than one post, I have also written many posts that reflect what I feel are the very positive factors involved in the nursing profession.
I’d like to finish with one last point: I tend to be wary of people that brag about the how great of a nurse they are, boast of the quality of their own skills, and talk about their coworker’s unrequited desire to hang out with them. A little modesty goes a long way toward reputability.
More interesting people talk about their weaknesses and how they overcome them…
December 17th, 2008 at 00:58
I’m going to school for nursing and as an ethnic and gender minority, it has benefited me as an advantage because it has made me more competitive and better student a result. I know as a minority, I have to represent myself positively so being average is not an option. I’m not a RN yet so I don’t know what it’s like in the workforce setting but I don’t see it in the classroom. Of course being an ethnic minority all of my life, I have been desensitize of any feelings of discrimination or really notice it anymore. If your an ethnic majority all of your life and all of a sudden your a minority, you will feel like a foreigner. If your hospital and colleague is not treating you with respect then I’m sure another hospital would like to have you on board because I don’t think many hospitals have luxury of choosing their ideal nurse because of forcasted shortage. It’s seems like they will take on anybody who is license to help a patient. The goal is to be the best in what your doing in your chosen profession and respect is not giving, its earn and the willing to pay the price for it.
January 25th, 2009 at 14:02
Well, 18 months into being qualified and I still stand by my thoughts that nusing is a sexually biased profession. I still dont get asked out with the girls on “girly nights out”. The female staff can buckle under the stress of the ED and break down in tears, dare I do that? no…no way. Whether we like it or not men ARE treated differently in nursing.
It has been said that female nurses tend to be type A personalities and male nurses type B personalities, thus you get the scenario of the type As (females) picking on the type Bs (males), human nature at work I dare say. Many many female nurses really are snappy bossy bitches and see the male nurse as a target for their frustrations………
January 25th, 2009 at 18:00
Dazza, I 100% agree that most female nurses I’ve met are “type A” and the male nurses “type B.” I definitely agree that this is some of the source of conflict.
The sociologist in me always wants to know if/why the the difference in personality type exists. Time for a study!
February 8th, 2009 at 04:01
I only see female doctors, so naturally, would ask for a female nurse.(for anything that made me uncomfortable)
I don’t apologize for that – it’s my right.
In the past women had no choice…we had to see male doctors and there are lots of horror stories – disrespectful behaviour and much worse…
A retired Dr, a friend of the family, told us over dinner one night that as a young doctor working in a hospital, he would sneak his male friends in to watch a birth or stand around watching a breast exam pretending to be students. He thought this behaviour was excused by his youth.
I was heartened to see that no one at the table thought it was funny or excusable…
I think it’s harder for these men to operate these days, but sadly it still happens….
As a young lawyer, I worked at the Medical Board and was sickened by the cases…always male doctors – I don’t recall a single case of sexual misconduct against a female doctor. There are cases of female doctors being assaulted by male patients.
It didn’t stop there….during my time at the DPP, we handled cases involving male orderlies, male medical students, male theatre technicians…even male morgue attendants.
Have you ever wondered why we now have all female funeral homes?
Those cases kept me awake for weeks….
We also, had a few cases involving male nurses working in psychiatric wards (in those days, there were very few male nurses working anywhere else)
In Australia we recently imprisoned a male dermatologist for the digital rape of several female patients – you’d think you were safe seeing a male dermatologist!
It’s hardly surprising that some women refuse male medical providers & others or insist on a chaperone.
Why are they needed? To protect both parties, but obviously due to the long history of sexual misconduct by male medical providers.
This can’t be denied – spend a day in Court or at the Medical Board – it’s ugly and sickening stuff…
Of course, women abused in a medical setting often struggle well into the future…avoiding doctors and living in fear of ever getting sick.
I don’t believe that men change after graduating from medical school – men are aroused by body parts – stimulated visually…
The hopeful thing…once these men were protected by a cone of silence, people looked the other way…
We had a few cases where male nurses reported disrespectful and inappropriate behaviour by male medical students. They didn’t join in, they didn’t look the other way – they did something about it…
Women should ALWAYS report inappropriate comments or touching – an exam that doesn’t seem right (a breast exam when you present with a sprained ankle – I kid you not!) and NEVER allow male medical providers to be forced on you – firmly repeat your request. Do not let anyone dismiss or ignore your request.
I do think there is a place for male nurses – there is a huge need in urology.
Just as women are now requesting all female staff for gynecological surgery, males are increasingly asking for male nurses in urological exams…
Many men feel uncomfortable with female nurses for these intimate procedures.
I think if male nurses are sensitive to the fact that many women are uncomfortable with male nurses…you should be able to work alongside female nurses – one of my friends is a nursing sister – she regularly refers a male patient to a male nurse if the patient objects to something and vice versa – sort of co-operative nursing.
I wouldn’t be deterred or discouraged – just be aware and sensitive.
Of course, every time something dreadful hits the papers, it makes it so much harder for the males that don’t take advantage or behave disgracefully….
A friend in the States told me that male x-ray technicians at the airport were behaving inappropriately with female passengers and the full body scanning machine – female operators have taken their place.
It seems whenever men are in a position of power and control and have access and opportunity, some will do the wrong thing.
Also, psychiatric hospitals & the Eye and Ear hospital.
If I were male, I’d prefer to work in an area where I’m welcomed…I’m really not surprised when women refuse male midwives…it’s a little naive not to expect some knock-backs in areas like that….where patients are very vulnerable, need to feel completely comfortable and need to trust the people assisting them…
Good luck in your nursing careers!
February 23rd, 2009 at 14:03
OMG This is so naive of you. You have basically intimated that all male health care providers are sexually abusive. You have given me the impression that you are a man hater with a chip on your shoulder. Of the cases that you witnessed I can assure you that there are thousands more male health care providers that are not abusive. Furthermore, female health care providers can be just as abusive, it just never gets to press….I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve had sexual remarks made to me by female staff members, and had my bottom pinched/felt etc…Also, how many of the allegations were in fact false. I’ve recently witnessed a male doctor arrested on the department for sexual abuse to a patient when in fact the allegations were totally false. The doctor5s reputation is in tatters because of a female druggie trying to get compensation cash. I’d suggest you go and do your homework and with a less bias view.@Juliet
March 6th, 2009 at 13:45
@Sean
If I came across as bragging, that was not my intent. I struggled for a long time with “when are they going to find out I’m just faking it?” The comments I made were accurate reflections of what I’ve experienced and been told, not my own interpretations.
Do I personally think I’m a great nurse? No. Average at best. It took a lot of comments from a number of people like the quote from a doctor (and that was an actual quote) for me to begin to get past the “faking it” thoughts.
Whether you consider me interesting or not is irrelevant to the conversation and was, I think, a personal attack rather than one aimed at the content of my comments. After re-reading my own comments, I am confident that I was addressing your comments and their message, not you, the messenger.
I stand by my concern that the negativity of the original post reflected badly on men in nursing. While I agree that anyone who could be swayed away from nursing by a single post probably shouldn’t be in it to begin with, we are in the minority and it takes little to give others the fodder they need to point out “see! Men shouldn’t be doing that kind of work!”.
Just as you note that a little modesty goes a long way so, too, does a little restraint. While my perceived lack of modesty only impacts how I am perceived, the negativity of the post impacts how others are perceived. So, while I appreciate what you were feeling at the time you wrote it, some things are best written to get them out of your system then discarded. Perhaps this was one such situation.
March 18th, 2009 at 07:01
Sean, et. al.
Sean, thanks for sharing your comments and I’m sorry that you have had a fairly negative experience thus far as a nurse. It looks like you need a new work environment! A wise instructor told me once when she considered changing units… “the grass is probably greener on the other side…but you still have to mow the lawn”
I’ve been a nurse for 6 years now, and I can empathize with the struggle that men have in this profession.
I grew up in a very small town, my dad was a doc, both of my older siblings are docs, ‘the in thing’ would be that I should go to med school… but the support I received from them when I started nursing school was great. My oldest sister is a trauma surgery fellow: she says that she actually prefers getting called by the TICU guys (as opposed to gals) because they generally stay calm when a situation goes bad, she says that the ladies try to one-up each other constantly and the environment becomes very toxic when that happens, which I’ve seen but I don’t get involved unless the patient’s safety is at risk.
In my experience (ER/TICU/Tele Float) I’ve never had a problem being a guy on the floor. Currently, I work with about 30% guys, we golf twice monthly, play poker, take our wives out together, its great. (the wives get along well… I think they all struggled with that at first…crazy girls;) I’ve never been treated as a child, but i’m also not afraid to ask questions when I get into a situation that I’m concerned about.
SO… Sean…while I don’t know you or your work style…, I think you might be suffering from a toxic work environment. I’m sorry that you have had such a bad experience. I know that you are not alone, but trust me there are places where you can work where you don’t get what you have described.
April 2nd, 2009 at 15:11
Oh man you have struck a raw nerve now. I am a male nurse who is under investigation from the DSHS because I had the nerve to pick up a combative, dangerous, little old psychotic lady and walk with her to the EMT stretcher. The EMT did not think this lady was a threat to anyone and made a complaint alleging abuse. That was nearly one year ago. I have been terminated form two jobs because the DSHS had not yet determined if I had abused this lady or not, nut the facilities had to keep people like me from those vulnerable adults. Nursing is perhaps the worst job I have ever had and I would not recommend it to anyone, ever. Your post shows some of the reasons why. And God help you if you make a joke with a friend at work and it is overheard by one of those other kinds of nurses–the one who micromanaged your pt. with the 70/40 bp–I was placed on paid administrative leave for nine months while the hospital sorted that one out, and in the end was terminated from that job as well.
The things one has to tolerate as a nurse because of plumbing.
April 11th, 2009 at 18:13
Sean,
Thanks for your reflection. I am doing research on a presentation for my class in grad school. My topic: Men in Nursing. It’s good to see things from the male perspective. I have to say, my mother recently died in an ICU and one of her nurses was male. He was great and he really indentified and helped my brother through the end of life process. It was so helpful for my brother to have this male caregiver as he grieved the loss of our mother. Thanks for all you do. I’m sorry you don’t always feel valued by your co-workers. You mean so much to the families of the sick people you care for.
May 25th, 2009 at 10:04
As a male I feel more comfortable with a female caregiver I think thier intentions are more sincere. I would not want my wife or children being cared for by a male. I’ve read and heard many horror stories about men in the healthcare field and being a male I understand men and thier intentions. Men will always be men and nothing will ever change that
June 1st, 2009 at 05:51
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July 29th, 2009 at 22:48
@MCKean
wow someone really hurt you. case in point…